Green Neoprene?

Recently there has been a lot of talk in the surf world about “green” wetsuits (1, 2, 3, 4). Most of the claims revolve around the use of neoprene made from limestone rather than petroleum. I asked Todd Copeland, who works on Patagonia's Fabric Development team, to shed some light on these claims.

Many of us at Patagonia wear wetsuits but until 2005 none of us had ever developed one. When we first sought to get into the business, we went to visit the raw material manufacturers to learn how neoprene is made, what kinds of materials are available, and their relative advantages and drawbacks, including environmental.

A wetsuit is basically made of foamed rubber, sometimes called a sponge. It can be laminated on one or two sides to fabric, usually polyester or nylon in a jersey knit. The pieces are glued and/or stitched together to make a wetsuit, and then the seams can be sealed to prevent water leakage.

The sponge is made from polychloroprene rubber chips, commonly called neoprene. These are melted and mixed together with foaming (blowing) agents and pigment, usually carbon black, and baked in an oven to make it expand.

To make the polychloroprene chips, the manufacturer polymerizes chloroprene monomers, which means reacting small molecules together to produce the large macromolecules (polymers) that make up rubber. There are two methods of manufacturing chloroprene monomer. The most common method – Method 1 – takes butadiene through a two-step process of chlorination and subsequent dehydrochlorination. The butadiene for Method 1 is derived from petroleum. The less commonly used method is to dimerize acetylene (react 2 acetylene molecules together to form a double molecule) and then hydrochlorinate the dimer. The acetylene for this Method 2 is derived from limestone.

Most people can imagine the environmental impacts of something derived from petroleum. Like gasoline and most synthetic chemicals, the origins of butadiene for making chloroprene via Method 1 start with oil exploration and drilling. Then the crude must be transported. (Images of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, the Exxon Valdez, and birds dying in oil spills come to mind.) At the refinery, components of crude oil are broken apart and separated to make different organic compounds, including butadiene.

The environmental impacts of something derived from limestone, however, are unfamiliar. Like oil, limestone is a limited, nonrenewable resource that is extracted from the earth. Limestone rock is mined from mountains, and requires diesel-powered equipment such as cranes, backhoes, and dump trucks the size of houses. The crushed limestone is fed into a furnace and heated to extremely high temperatures (over 3600º F) in an energy-intensive process. From the furnace, components are reacted with other chemicals to make products such as acetylene gas.

Chloroprenes derived from either petroleum or limestone are chemically equivalent. Polymerized and made into chips, limestone-based polychloroprene is not inherently stronger or more flexible than petroleum-based polychloroprene nor does it insulate better. Any advantage of one fabric or another relies on differences in manufacturing methods used to create the sponge.

Patagonia uses limestone-based polychloroprene for most of its neoprene products. Reducing dependence on oil and oil-derived chemicals is important. However, the trade-off in this case involves mining, pollution from diesel fuel combustion, and high energy usage. We have drawn the conclusion that both versions of polychloroprene have equally significant environmental impacts, although limestone definitely has the advantage of being easier than oil to clean up in the case of a spill!

Polychloroprene from any raw-material source creates the greater part of a wetsuit’s environmental impact; the other components such as nylon or polyester fabric play a much smaller role. We have reduced the environmental impact of our wetsuits by using recycled polyester and chlorine-free wool in the lining. These materials are more environmentally friendly than virgin polyester or chlorine-treated wool, respectively. The biggest environmental gain, however, is efficiency: the wool grid lining allows us to use a thinner layer of neoprene without sacrificing warmth retention. For example, Patagonia’s 3-mm suit is as warm as a typical 3/4, reducing the amount of polychloroprene in the wetsuit and, proportionately, its environmental impact.

One way to further “green” a wetsuit would be to focus on the adhesives in both the lamination and gluing processes. Solvents used in these processes evaporate into the air during manufacturing, polluting the environment with VOCs (volatile organic compounds). Converting to nontoxic, more environmentally friendly methods of laminating fabric to neoprene and gluing cut pieces would greatly reduce a wetsuit’s environmental footprint.

I’m glad to see that surfers are interested in buying and using “green” wetsuits. But don’t settle for marketing “greenwash!” Limestone doesn’t make a wetsuit more environmentally friendly. Push for new, innovative materials and construction methods, because we’ve got a long way to go before anyone has a true “green” wetsuit.

Todd Copeland
Patagonia, Inc.

Comments

[jf.]

thanks for your thoughtful and clear explanation of an issue the rest of us don't have the time or context to understand at first glance.

an incisive cutback to accurate marketing. shaka.

[Jason]

JF-

Thanks for the comment! I imagine this will educate some people, who knows...it may even make some people mad. I'm horrible with chemistry, but I learned a lot during this process and thouht that we could provide this information publicly allowing people to make their own informed purchasing decision. We recognize that our wetsuit isn't the 100% solution for a "green" product but we felt it necessary to shed some light on a subject that seemd to be greyhounding in a questionable direction. At the outset we realized that by introducing a wetsuit that was quote unquote "greener" others would most likely follow suit, and that's a good thing. Part of our mission is to raise the bar in terms of consumer expectations by providing the information necessary for them to make an educated purchase. As a company, we are far from perfect, we know that, but we need/expect consumers to take us to task and demand even better. If industries survive on consumers, then consumers have the ultimate power to change them, we just have to demand it! In my opinion people should investigate where their "green" products come from and make sure they're not being taken for a ride. Complacency is the enemy of innovation, and given the current state of things in the world, complacent is the last thing anyone anywhere can afford to be.

Thanks again for kicking of the conversation!

J

[JM patagonic]

kudos patagonia. sure there's a bit of marketing (or 'green washing' as some may say) but you're not claiming that your wetsuits are the answer to making something completely eco-friendly. i'm sure it's still to be seen what the impact of carbon output would be in comparing production of the petroleum based sponge rubber and limestone based sponge rubber. is there a difference in how much time it takes to cure these in the heating ovens ? if so, the ovens play a large role in energy consumed (or carbon output).

if a story of good, better, best ... it does seem thus far as best offer in the green consumers eyes... and maybe a good example of something of less (material) is more (warm).

most 'greener' products have more to do with innovative design / construction methods instead of use of materials at this point. oil seems to be at the demand of so many industries so it's hard to take petrolium based chemicals out of the 'more green' equation just yet...

[Ricardo Salcedo]

Todd,

Thank you for the honest and detailed explanation about the differences between limestone and traditional petroleum based wetsuits and their manufacture. At Phoresia.org we’ve been researching and writing about more “sustainable” surf products for the last two years and the changes we’ve seen in respect to green washing are outrageous. Even SIMA is promoting green marketing workshops these days.

The one thing you don’t mention in your piece is longevity of a given product. Most high end winter suits (I live and surf in Atlantic Canada) will not last more than two seasons. That’s a lot of waste. Although I have yet to try one of your suits, I am familiar with Patagonia’s stance on product life and if your wetsuits last as long as your jackets well then that in itself is a boon. Now if someone could make booties that actually keep your feet warm in freezing water…

Ricardo

[confused]

I'm confused still. If the impacts of Limestone mining and everything that goes into mining are yet to be seen, how is it possible that you can claim...."Patagonia Wetsuits: Warmer, More Environmentally Conscious"? Because of the other components that make up the construction of the suit? Glue, wool and polyester? How much more enviro friendly are Patagonia suits compared to what the industry standards are?
I am some what shocked that you don't know the effects of Limestone mining are. Usually you folks are reall good about doing your homework before you dive into something.
Don't get me wrong, I love what you do and stand for. I think you should just call it what it is, it's a wetsuit that has few enviro aspects/details.

[Jason]

Confused-

You are correct, we say warmer and more environmentally conscious because the sum of the parts allows us to build a better whole (a warmer wetsuit using less neoprene). Bullding a suit comprised of better components (Chlorine free wool and recycled polyester jersey are definitely more enviromentally conscious than virgin nylon and ployester linings/exteriors) allows us to use less of the most environmentally damaging components (chloroprene, commercially known as neoprene). This help clarify at all? It's still not perfect, we acknlowledge this, which is why we've chosen to say "more conscious" and not "green" as we feel this is a more accurate, honest, and fair description of our product.

enjoying the conversation...

J

[rob70]

What about durability?

Limestone neoprene is fragile, all the brands using it have problems with rips and splits. If a limestone 3mm suit lasts half as long as a petro 3/4, then the petro can be said to come out on top in terms of it's efficiency.

I'm no petro supporter, I think the negative social and political aspects of the material far outweigh the durability gain it offers, but durability is an issue that needs to be addressed.

If you guys get a durable limestone suit ready for next season, I'm in it.

[Jason]

Rob-

I hearya loud and clear man! We've addressed some durability issues that we have received from customers. It's kind of funny, some of the materials used commonly on wetsuits in Japan just don't have the durability needed for use in the American market. Our original smoothie cuffs had to be changed because people were tearing them when they put their suits on. This is never a problem in Japan as they use plastic bags and socks to ease any strain when suiting up, nevertheless we made the change for the American market. Similarly we've seen returns (and yes I see and process them all) and some wear issues in legs and arms and this has been addressed. The one thing we haven't figured out (short of not using smoothie) is how to keep such a soft, flexible, naturally windproof material from getting nicked, scratched and torn. I've seen legit tears from fins and rocks, but I've also seen just as many tears from fingernails, rings, and from people squeezing into a suit that is too small. We're currently testing some alternatives to smoothie and if the overall equation of warmth, flexibility and durability pencils out after these tests than you can bet we'll most likely move in that direction. After all, it's people like you pushing us to make better product, our own desire to do so, and the satisfaction of a job well done that makes it all worth while.

Here's to making better product!

Jason

[Tim]

I appreciate the information dissemination, and I do truly love my Japan manufactured R3, but let's get totally transparent here. Converting your production and assembly of wetsuit paraphanelia to China is a dirty, dirty business. Ripples turn to waves so let's exercise some ecological consciousness and consider China's dirty (coal fired grid), inhumane (labor conditions, tibet, communism), and voracious industrial appetite. These considerations lay upstream of the newer wetsuits and accessories. Is this something Patagonia should really perpetuate? Folks, let's not forget the larger ecological processes for the product. Much Peace and Sweet Swells!

[Jason]

Tim-

Not sure what you mean here as far as converting our wetsuits production to China. Currently we only make our booties, gloves, and caps in China. There are no plans to convert production for suits to China. As with all our manufacturers we are working closely with improving working conditions etc. I agree with you that China is another way of saying NIMBY and we need to look closely at production methods and working conditions. Thanks for the insightfull comment, hopefully it will raise someone else's awareness to a growing concern!

Regards,

Jason

PS-some interesting posts on the cleanest line on this very subject, do a search!

[Bill]

Product question more than enviro question-

designed for surfing, how would these rate as scuba diving wetsuits? It's my understanding that a suit designed for surfing is different tha a suit designed for scuba, and visa versa. For example, a surfing suit may be more flexible for movement, but this neoprene may not stand up to the pressures of depth. And a depth resistant neoprene for warmth would be stiff and not flexible. Your comment?

[Franklin]

I have heard allot of chatter about front zip suits from Patagonia as well as 5mm suits.

When will these wetsuits be available???

[Jason]

Bill-

I'm not a diver but I'm hoping someone who is will answer your question!

Best,

Jason

[Jason]

Frank-

Fronztips suits will be out this fall, and Cardiff should be seeing their first shipment in mid October. The 5mm hooded suits will be arriving mid-December.

Best,

Jason

[David G. Evans]

Todd:
I live in Cardiff, CA and hope you will get an inquiry about this from the staff at the Patagonia store.
I have been doing a lot of "field research" on my own with wetsuit materials in chlorine pools because I am forced to do an hour of hydrotherapy a day. Our pool is only solar, and in winter it drops to the low fifties, so I want a good suit for four months, and I demand longevity.

The question is: what are the durability issues with your product in chlorine vs. salt water?

Additionally, I hope you will look into incorporating something akin to the chlorine resistant polyester blend materials using about 50% PBT. I am using rashguards (from Stingray, AU) and finding the durabilty and retention of strech and shape to be twelve to twenty time better than lycra and five to ten times better than nylon. My rashguard that gets daily exposure to pool water and sun is going on fifteen months now..the seams are getting sad, (I think they don't use the PBT thread) but the fabric is practically like new.

Your feedback is much appreciated. Thanks for your work in improving wetsuit design.

regards,
dge

[Jason]

Hi Jason,

Thanks a lot for this one! I'll try to answer below:

Spandex (or Lycra(R)) does degrade over time with exposure to chlorine. So a different stretch fiber such as PBT would be better for pool use. Nylon should be OK, probably degraded by sun exposure more than chlorine.

For rashguards and wetsuit jersey fabrics, we use spandex blends to get the best stretch and recovery. We have quite a few PBT fabrics in development but we have not used them in these products because they do not have as much stretch. For chlorine-resistance, we would have to sacrifice some stretch. And as of now, we hear more demand for stretch than chlorine-resistance.

But we should keep David's comments on hand. Besides chlorine-resistance, we could also reduce the environmental impact of the fabric if we could eliminate spandex and use PBT instead.

Todd Copeland
Patagonia, Inc.

[Brian Hawkins]

You guys rock, I love your no BS, non fuzzy feeling & up front approach to marketing "green" products.

So what this about matuse wetsuits claming they are the only ones with this technology on the market?

Regards,
Brian Hawkins
Kombi Sports Inc.

[Jim]

hey guys - how about recycling the old wetsuits? I've looked around and not found a consistent way to get this done, or anyone really pushing the issue. I tried to get this done for our Surfrider chapter and struck out.
Any help?
thanks for clarifying the limestone process for us. so what IS with Matuse claiming they're the only ones...?
Jim

[Jason]

Bri-

I think they're claiming to be the only ones for their exclusive type of limestone based neoprene, not so much limestone based neoprene in general.

Without getting into an unfair (and one sided) rant I think the point for everyone to remember is that there are a lot of green claims that are going unchecked in lots of different product categories and industries and we as consumers need to stop letting companies talk to us like we're stupid.

Matuse believes they're doing the right thing and I can't knock them for it, they (like us) will continue to adapt and innovate new materials as they see fit and let consumers to decide what they want to purchase. Ultimatley, the consumers have the power to drive the market and what they purchase will be what gets improved upon by competing companies. At the end of the day it is an inevitable fact that every company in the world needs to operate sustainably. It doesn't matter if it's widgets or wetsuits the production needs to be done in an environmentally conscious manner as it is becoming the over-riding largest issue to consumers today.

Hope this helps,

Jason

[Jason]

Jim-

Recylcing old wetsuits is not that far off. The problem most recycling companies have is getting a consistent volume of material to warrant the recycling process. There are companies that are looking into recycling wetties back into a lower grade neoprene for footwear, and I think you'll be stoked in a year or so when some of these programs are unleashed. Until then I think it's up to each and every one of us to find a second life for our old wetsuits....computer sleeves, mouse pads, beer coozies, yoga mats...whatever! Anything to keep it out of the landfill sounds good to me!

Best regards,

Jason

[Mark]

Hey Todd,

I had the pleasure of working with Patagonia in the early development of Patagonia's wetsuit product line.

Good job communicating a difficult concept for many to grasp, especially in the face of very confusing marketing efforts by other companies. The recent ad in Surfing magazine is a fine use of ink and paper. Nice to see honesty in advertising.

People (not consumers) need accurate reliable information in order to make good buying decisions.

Along with recycling or repurposing, legitimate and more sustainable alternatives are not far off.

Keep up the great work.

Best,

Mark

[Nicolas]

Hi patagonia guys,

Your wetsuit seems to be great piece of engineering. Moreover your explanations about the green approach when producing wetsuit are very interresting.

But I have questions about your suit for which I haven't find any answer.
What glue do you use to stick the different pannels? Do you have any alternative to silicone to cover the seams?

Best regards

Nicolas

[FCD]

Nick-

GLUE-DB600 Black Adhesive- 3 Coats
HARDENER- DB1000
PRIMER-710

We did not develop this glue but it is the highest quality standard glue used for wetsuit manufacturing as far as we can deduce from testing. We tested 5 different polymer compositions in 5 different suits and this one is the best. It may be worth noting that we also blindstitch externally and internally for extra seam/bond strength and performance.

Billy Smith
Wetsuits Development Team
Patagonia

[Freezing in Maine]

Hello just want to say how much I love my R3 fullsuit... but it's now too cold for it in the Northeast...

I have called 3 of your stores that carry your suits, no one seems to know when the hooded R4 wetsuit will be available, how much it will cost, and if they will be available for women.

Eagerly awaiting your response, thanks!

[FCD]

Freezing-

Mens R4 suitswill be available by the end of January. They will be $600. We are looking into the possibility of making R4 suits for women but the chalenges lie in the factory minimums and the market size. Still though, we are trying to find a way around these challenges. I hope this helps!

Jason

[El Pescador]

I was cornered at a recent holiday party by a Maine surfing contingent because I was known to be a Patagonia guy. The big question they had for me was when will the R4 suits be in and how much will they cost. Thanks for answering these Jason. I have a feeling that once these suits are in stock that some of them will immediately find their way to the right coast to ride the cold water winter waves of Maine....and I can't think of a better place to test them. This is a surf scene where 7mm booties and split finger mitts are standard operating equipment.

[FCD]

Pescador-

No worries man! My focus when I get back is to get these suits to the North East and Paciic Northwest ASAP. We want to make some people warm!!!

Best regards,

Jason

[El Pescador]

Thanks for the follow up Jason. I have little doubt that the R4 suit will be a hit along the northern coasts. Keep up the good work.

[Steve]

I thought I would share a quick thought... regardless of the diligence put into a life cycle assessment
of manufacturing a product, I believe limestone to much more friendlier than petrol as I can't remember the
last time a war was started securing the rights to limestone, and as far as I am concerned war is one of the
worst things to ever happen to our environment!

[hoon]

thank you for the transparency. this is very helpful to know and i'll make sure to broadcast this to the peeps.

[Susan Manz]

I have a use for old neoprene and would be interested in discussions about setting up a recycling program. This would involve the storage, collection, and management of the old wetsuits by my team.

[FCD]

Susan-

Sounds like a great idea! If youhave any infrmation you would like us to post just let us know and we'll get it out there for people to see!

Best regards,

Jason

[Jesse huffman]

Hi Jason and Todd. I'm a journalist working on a piece about eco-friendlier surf organizations and products for ESPN.com Action Sports. I've been following this very interesting and incisive conversation, and looking for a way to contact the people behind Patagonia's R-series suits...
Hit me up if you could via email, jessehuffman@gmail.com, I'd like to talk with you more about the suits!
Thanks,
Jesse

[John]

What about liquid seam seals? I think these are the cutting edge and am waiting to see if you incorporate them into your suits. What is PAtagonia's take?

[FCD]

JOhn-

That's a good question, and if we could find a liquid seal that didn't dry out and crack within a year of hard use, we'd use it.

The truth behind liquid seam sealing is that although it's used primarily to seal the suit, it also serves the purpose of covering all the pinholes that occure when you are blind stitching the very thin neoprene used in many of the super flexi suits (the ones you see stretched beyond the limits any surfer would need) in magazine ads. In essence, the seam tape is there to prevent leakage from poor quality sewing as a result of materials being used.

This is not to say that seam tape isn't a good idea, it's just that when and if we start to use it, it will be to actually seal the suit not cover mistakes.

In Japan where we developed our suits, liquid seam tape is not used because they take so much pride in the gluing and sewing that goes into their suits. In other words, they don't need it because they feel if a suit is glued and sewn correctly, it's just as good as seam tape. That's obviously a perspective unique to the culture and perception that exists in the Japanese market, but I thought you may find it interesting. In fact, I'm pretty sure anyone that's had a custom Japanese suit will agree with me on that one.

Currently we are looking at developing and testing emerging liquid tape technologies that will meet our durability and quality standards. When we our finished our wear and lab testing we wil make a decision on whether or not to incorporate it!

Best regards,

Jason

[kenny]

Any plans on a R2 style Shortsleve suit with out the wool lining for those almost warmer waters?

[Jason]

Kenny-

We have a short sleeve R2 coming out this summer, but it has wool. If we did a short sleeve suit without any wool it would be R1 (like our tops).

To answer your question though, currently there are no plans for a fullsuit that has absolutely no wool.

We may lessen the wool in some areas based on customer feedback but as of right now having a short sleeve fullsuit that is 100% wool lined has been very well received.

Hope this clears things up!

Thanks man,

Jason

[Sean Buckley]

Hi Patagonia guys.

I live in Wellington, the capital city of Aotearoa New Zealand.

By the end of this winter season I'll be in need of another wettie. You guys make good stuff and I'd be keen to buy one of your R series suites - god knows the water is cold enough! However, your website doesn't seem to have a 'New Zealand' option. Will it ever? Does this mean I can't buy anything from you online?
There are a lot of surfers here - hell there are a lot of environmentally aware and outdoor oriented people here. You guys even source some of your wool from us. Any chance that in the near future I might be able to buy things from your website - or even better, be able to try on and buy one of your quality wetties down here? Maybe I already can?

Just curious.

Sean

[Jason]

Sean-

Here is the contact information for our retail store in Torquay, Australia. They should be able to help you get a suit as thay have them available!

Patagonia
116 Surfcoast Hwy., Torquay, Victoria
PH:(03) 5261-4420
3228

We're also working on a wholesale dealer distribution that should help keep you and your friends well stocked in the gear you like best from us.

Any suggestions as to what shops would best match us as a company? I run the surf division so that's what I'm thinking of most but any suggestions you have would be much appreciated, thanks!

Hope this helps,

Jason

[steph]

Hi Todd,

This is an enlightening article and I'm always glad to see you guys keeping your eyes on how to improve production and have the least eco-impact. A noble, yet difficult pursuit.

You briefly touched on this in the comments above but I'd love to hear a more detailed answer.

As a woman surfer it's always frustrating that the guys have more choices than we do in the wetsuit market. I realize this is probably due to demand but would love to hear more about that from your point of view.

When you guys announced a front zip I was really excited but then found out it would only be available for men.

I also heard a rumor that you aren't making women's suits anymore? Is this true? I haven't tried one of your suits yet, been waiting until my O'Neill wears out to upgrade. My friends swear by them and say they're the warmest suits they've ever worn.

thanks

[Jason]

Steph-

You are correct. We have had a limited amount of resources to produce our suits and to make the program successful we needed to focus on the styles that sell the most. The sales data is obviously skewed towards men's suits especially when you get into the thicker high end suits.

As it stands now the women make up 16% of the sales in the market for fullsuits. Our first year we sold 10 men's suits for every 1 women's suit. (Transworld Surf Biz Nov 08). Our second year was much better, more like 6 to 1. I expect that ratios will get even closer as W's frontzips in R2 and R3 will be available this November. I'm not sure where you heard the rumor of us not making W's suits but that's definitely not true. We want to make suits for women!

Hope this helps,

Jason

[P.J.]

Hey Todd, great post! We run a beer koozie company, and I'm in the early stages of researching eco-friendly neoprene substitutes, so our customers (and ourselves) can feel better about our products' environmental impact.
Any info on suppliers of such materials or a link to some further reading will be greatly appreciated.
Keep up the good work Patagonia, I'm continually impressed by your forward-thinking and ethical practices.

Cheers,
P.J.

[Jared]

Hi Patagonia, and Sean.

We at Seventhwave Wetsuits in Christchurch, New Zealand also use limestone-based neoprene exclusively from Yamamoto Corporation in Japan. We don't really push the 'green' aspect but the durability and warmth inherent in Yamamoto's neoprene is something we are super proud of.

Compared to Chinese and Taiwanese neoprenes we have found that Yamamoto far exceeds most expectations, especially with it's 93% nitrogen closed-cell content. It seems there are only a handful who use this method around the world (including us, Patagonia, Matuse and others).

Thanks Patagonia for continuing to develop and publish your findings! A great article too.

Cheers

Jared (Seventhwave)

[Jason]

Jared-

Thanks for the support! Feel free to post anything you want anytime here. We welcome any and all discussion regardless of the topic and love to support like minded companies!

All the best,

Jason

[Heather Smith]

Someone asked about recycling wetsuits. Did he meant outright recycling the material or repairing old ones for future use? There is a woman in Tofino in BC that does it if you are keen to find her on the net.
I would love to see a women's hooded R4 PLEASE. The waters where I live are cold and women tend to get cold easily so show some love! I know women are a much smaller market, but the men's suits always have the latest technology and are the thickest, hoodiest and best. Can't Patagonia just make less of the womens? But I don't know, maybe if equally formidible women's products were out there more women would take the plunge.
Thanks for your article aout geoprene which is definitely touted by some companies as eco friendly. It is important to at least start using new materials and hopefully in the future with a little innovation and technology the processing can be less caustic. Cause it's all about being in the ocean right?
Free diving suits have long been made with geoprene and one is advised to handle them VERY CAREFULLY.
I would love to try an R3 as I am in the market for a wetsuit.

[Jason]

Heather-

I think he meant actually recycling the material into new material. The quality of this type of neoprene is advancing rapidly, although it still has a ways to go.

As for the Women's R4, it will be out in Fall 2010. In teh neare(er) term W's R3 and R2 chestzips will beout this November. We would have them sooner if we could but we ran into a fabric issue that required us to replace all the material needed for the production run, so delivery has been delayed until November. My apologies in advance. If you can manage to wait it will be worth it I promise!

Best regards,

Jason

[Todd Copeland]

Hello PJ,

You are looking for some "eco-friendly neoprene substitutes" for a bev koozie? For that application you might be able to use a different kind of foam, such as polyurethane (PU) foam. Compared to neoprene, it's open cell and has less stretch but for a koozie it should work great. If you want to use neoprene, maybe you could recycle some old wetsuits or neoprene scraps. Good luck! I'm glad you are looking for an innovative solution.

Todd

[warren]

Hi All,

I'm the technical designer at Gul wetsuits in Cornwall, UK.
Thanks for a great article, if only everyone was as honest.

When all the limestone 'eco' marketing started coming out last year, I asked our neoprene supplier exactly how green it is and if we could use it. She said it's no greener than oil based and that we'd been using it since 2007. They just switched when the oil price when through the roof!!

Since then I've been trying to make the best 'green' wetsuit.

There are loads of 'green' neoprene products in development, but it's difficult trying to find out what actually makes a difference and what's just another limestone greenwash.
It's a minefield!

I'm currently testing samples using non-toxic adhesives (unfortunately they only work on some fabrics) to bond recycled polyester, corn starch or bamboo fabrics to neoprene.

Corn starch is supposed ‘sustainable’ and bio-degradable, but I'm not sure about using corn, what about increasing global food prices and how can a bio-degradable wetsuit be durable enough.

Bamboo seems like a good alternative to cotton but in a wetsuit??
Also now I’ve been told natural Chinese forests are being clear-cut to create and money making mono-culture bamboo plantations?

Recycled polyester sounds good but I'm struggling with the cost and the stretch. Will people buy a greener wetsuit if it cost the same as a top end suit but has the stretch of an entry level?

AAAggh!
Warren

[Jason]

Warren-

Thanks for writing in! As it stands now there is definitely no "green" neoprene. The only thing we all can do is try tomake the best suit we know how. I know Gul suits, I remember a picture from the mags when I was a kid that was of a guy surfing in front of a breakwall in a black and white Gul wetsuit. That image stuck in my brasin, I think because he looked like a killer whale (plus he was absolutley smashing the lip). Anyway....I'm rambling, sorry!

I think the best way to build a "green" is to come at it from a durability and warmth perspective. Too many people are happy with disposable super-flexi suits that they'll never need becuase they're not that good. I could wear Slater's wetsuit and ride his board but it wouldn't do damn thing for my surfing. If people realized that and bought what worked, and what they needed, than demand would change and so would the quality of product. I'm not bummed though because I think consumer awareness raises every year and eventually the market will be more focused on quality and durability over neon covered performance features that are impractical. I mean who really needs a suit that stretches 700% (or whatever)more than their own skin? It's crazy! Anyway...I'm rambling again..I apologize.

It is a minefield, that is for sure. Bamboo, recycled poly, glues, etc, all have some consequence to their use. I'll forward this to the guys in our fabric lab and see what I can get out of them on those fabrics you mentioned. I know that some bamboo fabrics use rayon in the wash process and that's gnarly. Like I said, I'll see if I can get one of those guys to chime in.

Thanks again for writing!

Jason

[Todd Copeland]

Hi Warren,

I'll "chime in" with what we've found when researching these different fabrics.

I'm still skeptical on the eco-benefits of corn-based fabrics. The agricultural practices are all but ignored -- monocropped RoundUp Ready GMO corn, lots of poisonous pesticides and petro-based fertilizers -- I guess not all that's grown is green! Also the efficiency of making fiber from corn starch is very low when you consider only using the starchy part of the kernals of corn -- lots of ag waste left.

Jason's right on the bamboo thing -- most of the bamboo fabric is really viscose rayon, made from bamboo. Regular rayon is commonly made from pulp & paper waste, so I don't see the big eco-improvement there. The real issue with rayon is the viscose process. It uses toxic chemicals to convert cellulose pulp into fiber, and many factories let those toxics escape into the environment.

Reycled polyester is a good bet, and even recycled nylon is becoming more readily available. Compared with regular polyester or nylon, if you add the same amount of spandex you should get the same amount of stretch in the fabric. As for a greener spandex, we're still looking for it! Cost on recycled fibers is usually higher, like you said. Maybe more volume will help that, so the more people that recycle and buy recycled products, the better it will get.

Thanks for bring up these fabrics -- they are definitely a part of the whole issue of striving to build a greener wetsuit!

Todd